Conditioning to Consciousness

38. Love Is Responsibility: Decolonizing from the Inside Out with Mars Amante

• Jess Callahan

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In this episode of Conditioning to Consciousness, we step into a deep, unscripted conversation about decolonization — not as an abstract theory, but as a lived, embodied process that touches our minds, bodies, relationships, and connection to the land.

I’m joined by Mars Amante, a psychic medium, animal communicator, and spiritual guide whose work lives at the intersection of activism, intuition, and reconnection. Sometimes the best conversations unfold when you throw away the plan. 

In this episode, we talk about how the systems that shape us are deeply intertwined, and how they survive by keeping us disconnected: from our bodies, from each other, from nature, and from our own inner knowing. We talk honestly about identity, privilege, burnout, fear, and responsibility, while naming the importance of listening to voices that have been speaking about these realities long before they entered mainstream consciousness.

A central theme of this episode is that decolonization is not just political — it’s personal. It shows up in how we rest, how we work, how we define success, how we relate to our children, and how safe we feel asking questions. We explore how colonial and capitalist conditioning trains our nervous systems toward urgency, obedience, and survival — and how reclaiming rest, intuition, and embodiment becomes a radical act of resistance.

We talk about Mars' journey into activism, spirituality, and reconnection with the land, emphasizing that while we may not be able to dismantle every system at once, we can begin by decolonizing the self. We talk about returning to the body, honoring boundaries, reconnecting with nature, and remembering that humans are not separate from the ecosystems we inhabit — we are part of them.

This conversation also holds space for nuance and accountability. We acknowledge the limits of our own perspectives as white and white-passing women, and we emphasize the responsibility to educate ourselves, diversify our sources, and listen deeply to Black, Indigenous, disabled, queer, and marginalized voices. Decolonization, as Mars reminds us, requires ongoing learning — not comfort.

Throughout the episode, we return again and again to one guiding question:
 Are our choices rooted in fear — or in love?

If you’re feeling overwhelmed, burnt out, disconnected, or quietly questioning the systems you’ve been taught to live within — this episode offers reflection rather than answers, curiosity rather than certainty, and an invitation to begin where you are.

Topics we explore include:

  • What decolonization really means beyond buzzwords
  • How colonial systems shape identity, worth, and success
  • The role of the nervous system in disconnection and burnout
  • Why rest, intuition, and embodiment are part of the resistance
  • Raising children who question authority with compassion
  • Reconnecting with nature as a path to healing and resistance
  • Love vs. fear as a daily decision-making compass
  • The importance of listening to voices outside our own lens

🎧 Listen now and join us in asking better q

If this episode spoke to you, it would mean the world if you took a moment to leave a review or share it with a friend who needs it. And make sure you hit follow so you never miss an episode of Conditioning to Consciousness.

You can connect with me on Instagram @jesscallahan_, join my Substack community at conditioningtoconsciousness.substack.com, or explore more of my work at jesscallahan.com.

My Back in the Body Nervous System Healing course is now available! Find it here.

Thanks for listening — I’m so grateful you’re here.

Jess Callahan:

Hey guys, welcome back to the Conditioning to Consciousness podcast. Today's conversation is about decolonization and how it's basically connected to each of the other systems that you're hearing so much about right now, like patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism. My guest today is Mars Amanti, and Mars is a psychic medium, an animal communicator, but also like a spiritual guide with just an incredible amount of depth. Mars is firmly grounded in this process of deconstructing systems, living by nature, while also like helping others on their own journey to finding a deeper connection with the stuff. And I love this conversation so much because it's like not at all how I expected it to go. I have this whole list of questions that I thought we'd be talking, specifically about like disconnection from intuition. And um, you know, I just I had this whole list of um questions about each of the systems and I had a plan, right? But you know, as it goes, we we threw the plan out the window because the conversation was just um it was it was feeling for me. It was just uh fun and engaging. And you'll notice that it doesn't even start how the rest of my episodes start. We just like dove into conversation right away, like before, before I was even like ready to ask the um the first intro questions. It was just like, I don't know, we were just like on the same same wavelength. So at the beginning, we just dive right in. And without further ado, I'm going to turn it over to my conversation with Mars.

Mars Amante:

I'm like lifelong activist in that I'm an empath, but then uh late, late high school and and college is really when I started learning about these systems and understanding my place. I'm also I'm biracial, but I am white passing. So learning about the different identity layers and layers of privilege versus oppression, it's a lot. I know people resist that because their comfort is rooted in this identity that doesn't know. But then that's inherently contributing to the issues around. So at some point you do, I say all the time, love is responsibility, self-love is responsibility, love for one another is love is responsibility. And I the weight of that people buckle under so often. But we are at a point where it just is going to keep getting worse until we make these changes and we let ourselves be awake, even though it's uncomfortable and we have to find who we are now outside of these systems or what we can do to help collapse them. Um, yeah, it's a lot of work, and I appreciate the roles of everyone, the archivist, the artist, like we were speaking on earlier, like anyone who's who's bringing attention in any way. So I'm grateful to be having this conversation with you. We'll speak actually with a disclaimer um off the bat. I and I say this when I teach workshops on decolonizing the body and spirit, because that's where my powers lie. Um, it is a well-rounded and full education, and decolonizing your mind is a huge responsibility. And it involves listening to voices that are going to be different from yours. And we happen to be two white or white passing women. Um, and so I just want to say listen to other voices. Listen to the black women and the indigenous women and people that have been speaking to this from the dawn of it. You know, it's it's their own apocalypsis that we're we're sitting in the midst of. So go find other voices that don't look like you, they don't sound like you, it might make you uncomfortable. Question that, but you you need to speak having a well-rounded resource, and that invite it involves um education on the systems around you and how you benefit from them, whether you like believe it or not, whether you're wealthy or not, whatever it is, seeing your place in in this atmosphere or in this ecosystem, rather. Uh yeah, highly important. Do your research.

Jess Callahan:

I think that's such a really, really, really good and important point to start with because it is like as to white passing women, white white passing however we say it, like we are we are a narrow lens, you know, through which to like to share this story. And I think that it is really important to just like, you know, train your algorithms to give you perspectives from all different walks of life and from the people who have been shouting this stuff from the rooftops forever and ever and ever. So yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that like tuning um of the sort of the lens as we start this conversation. So, okay, so with that, I want to ask you then, um, I guess just to start to start with here, like what what brought you to doing that the work, to doing the work that you do?

Mars Amante:

Okay. It's I'm like laughing because of how much joy this is spilling in my heart. I'm definitely like natural born activist, just in that I lost you. That was so Zoom just like turned off. That was so weird.

Jess Callahan:

They're like, you guys are about to have a really important conversation. Yeah.

Mars Amante:

They said the same thing. I was like, I'm gonna sound like an Aquarius conspiracy theorist, but I'm like, oh, we're talking about deconstructing systems, and Zoom just shuts off.

Jess Callahan:

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's yeah, there's something more. It's not conspiracy theory anymore. When we're the ones that have to do the work to uncover it. I mean, it's like just research.

Mars Amante:

Right. I love that. Oh, that's a good thread.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah, I think you cut off like right at the beginning. I mean, like, yeah, so you can probably just start start right from there.

Mars Amante:

Yeah. So my journey through activism, I it started really from a young age. I think just because I'm a deeply empathetic person. So even though you don't really know the words or how to describe the systems around you, you feel the wrongness in them when you're a child and your adults are at their jobs most of the day. Like we just feel in our bodies that that's not how that's supposed to be. And I remember asking, why do you have to go to work? Why do we need money? And it sounds like you could write it off as, you know, silly kids not understanding, but I think it's that kids are very in tune and grounded and they understand the ancestral patterns and like, no, we should be doing this together all day and learning crap, you know, working with our hands and having fun, those kinds of things. So I I feel like I've always known like something is not right here. And I've always been a big thinker, a very curious person. And then when I got to like late high school age, then I started realizing my own place in the systems and how the systems that they existed to begin with. Uh, so now I was starting to get words for the injustices that I was feeling throughout my life. Um, I spent a lot of time in Black feminist spaces, like just absorbing knowledge from these women that I'm so grateful for. I am a biracial person and I learned around late high school that I was a white passing person and seeing the implications of that in the communities around me. And now I have this privilege and this identity that I'm not really connected with. And I'm so grateful that I was able to find education in this, um, which is why I say, like, like we said already, go to voices from women of color, in particular, queer people of color, disabled people, like learn from that people that don't, you know, reflect maybe the views you grew up with. But anyway, oh, so I was spending a lot of time just deeply educating myself. I think college really radicalized to me because I had access to resources to understand these, these things. And it's kind of like once you open the door and you're through it, you see everything differently. So gender politics, I understood now, and and these just deeply rooted, like I said, heart of the empire problems where every aspect of your life is touched by these systems, and now I'm aware of it. And now what? And it's it's very easy to get overwhelmed with the so what do I do now? And I think a lot of people even steer away from this journey because they don't know what control that they do have. And for me in my adult years, it's come deep into my spirituality of decolonizing my body, allowing rest, allowing joy, being in community, even when it's inconvenient, these things where I'm enriching my soul, reconnecting with the land actually was a pivotal thing for me. I've always been connected to the earth, but then you go through schooling and you go through relationships in life, and now you have a full-time job and it's so easy to disconnect. And I think that's actually how we met. We were talking about how colonialism separates you from the land and your intuition. So after my college years of like activism and protesting and spreading information and archiving, now I'm on this path of reconnecting people around me, remembering our systems and remembering our roots and our ancestral traditions. Like go outside and talk to the trees and talk to the animals around you and reconnect because humans are not the only ones suffering from colonialism and from capitalism. We're we're destroying the homes of the animals around us, we're restructuring how we interact with them and how our children are raised around them. So it's it's fragmenting our culture even more. And I think so. Now my purpose has become to reconnect. I like to say I'm a bridge to connection because I'm an animal communicator and a psychic medium. And I've been able to use both of those skills to bring people closer to the collective as a whole. Because once you you see your cat differently and you say, actually, you are an animal companion, we're both struggling in these systems together. I have, you know, you start to see the world differently and you start to make different choices. And so I think decolonizing the self is something that you can control. You cannot maybe stop the genocides happening right now, but you can go to your local community center and talk to your friends about these ideas and maybe make a dinner. And now we're talking about theory, and it's it's very important to control what you can because they are depending on us to be overwhelmed and frazzled and separated. And what you can do, what you can do does come from a place of self. I'm responsible for how I think. I'm responsible for the media that I'm intaking, the propaganda that I'm allowing to shape my views, my decisions. And it is a huge responsibility, but it is within your control, uh, on top of, of course, like financial donations and things like that. But the more you're decolonizing yourself and your soul and your body, the more you naturally want to be, oh, what resources do I have to reallocate? What can I do? How can I get involved? It's like once you have that connection established, you want to feed into it because it's feeding you. And so I think, yeah, where I'm at now, a lot of what I'm doing is getting people to see that connection again.

Jess Callahan:

Oh my gosh. Okay, there's so much there. Like you, you started to spot the systems young, which is really cool because I think it takes a lot, you know, people wake up at different times to like what these systems mean. Um, but you know, you started to see them young, which is really cool. I think that like there's this whole idea of doing the work yourself, doing the healing, or just whatever, you know, whatever it is, whatever inner journey it is, it's also, you know, it's all related. But like, and then, and then there's that moment of being like, now it's time to pass that healing forward. Now it's time to like, it's that ripple effect where when you do the work yourself and you get rooted in like that change and you do it, fills out like void. There's like that void I think that a lot of people have before this work starts to really like take root. And then once it's like full, it's like you know that when you're going to you know the the animal shelters, or you're going to the, you know, to to volunteer, you're going to have a dinner party with friends and you have the opportunity to share some of this stuff, or you have kids and you're having conversations with your kids about, you know, the different ways.

Mars Amante:

Your kids in these conversations, one million percent. One million percent.

Jess Callahan:

The ripple effect is so, it's so big. I mean, I had this instance with my daughter the other day where she um there was a substitute teacher and she was reading a book, like it was free time, they were reading books, and she was like reading a book, the the words over my daughter's shoulder, and it was about gender. And the it was an inclusive book. My daughter was reading a book that was basically like some some people are um boys, some people are girls, some people are neither. And the the substitute teacher gave some like remark about how that's not true, that's confusing. And my 11-year-old daughter, in a very like polite and gentle and appropriate for an 11-year-old way, like just questioned her hard in front of the class, like, well, why is that confusing if you're not neither, you know? And but what if you were both? Like, you know, and it was just I was so proud of her, and like just like the ripple effect that that creates, you know, like we do have agency in I'm very proud of her to my uh like a sweet little 11-year-old, and their heart's like hammering, but they're like, No, I have to say something, I have questions.

Mars Amante:

And I love that she you've created a safe space for her where she can question things. And as somebody who's always been a like I said earlier, a big thinker, I ask a lot of questions. The systems hate questions because when you ask questions, you realize that they don't make sense and that they're actually very harmful. And so it relies on you not asking questions, which is why we're cutting the arts and stomping out creative um outlets, and we're not even really focusing on literacy and things like that in this country. So if there's a reason we don't have POMET classes, like they're very much tailoring what we are allowed to learn, what we have access to, what is allowed to be normal, what is safe to express in groups of people. It's very overreaching. So I love that she's already out here. Like now you're going to ask questions, and if you can't answer them, that's a red flag. It doesn't mean I'm wrong for asking questions.

Jess Callahan:

And it doesn't mean just because I'm 11 and you're a person of authority that like I, you know, I can't ask you that. And I think, like, just to close that loop, one thing that I think is important, you know, when she came home, we talked about like how did that feel? And if you had been more aggressive, you know, with the teacher and sort of even rude, like how would that have felt? And how did it feel? How would it have felt to not speak up? You know, sort of aligning it with like her values.

Mars Amante:

And so the whole spectrum of how you can show up.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah, so it is. I think it is, it's a process, it's an inner journey, and that's where I want to go next on this is like it is um, it looks different for everyone. And I think we all do have to really like, as we start to figure out where our edges are and the change we want to make in our own lives, like you know, what does that look like? How does it feel? So, okay, so we're we're gonna talk about colonialism, decolonizing your own self and your own mind. And so I want to start there and kind of get an idea, like, what does all of that mean to you?

Mars Amante:

Okay, so it's I guess in very simple terms, it's like the domination of some cultures by one, the theft of land. Uh, you mentioned authority earlier. It really is like using authoritarianism to kind of conquer. Uh and it it all comes from ego, which is so it's almost infuriating that something that could cause this much distress and violence and harm, literally wiping out entire peoples. Like it all just stems from the ego of wanting more, feeling like I don't have enough. I need more power, I need more, and power is land, and power is money. So I need those things. And they're all just resources so that I can feel safe and I can feel good. When the truth of it is abundance is a birthright, and we're on an earth that creates everything that we need from it. And our consumption habits are harming that. Like, there's so and uh uh just to touch on really quickly as I say consumption habits, I am talking about the corporations, not the people using straws, like just to put that out there. Um, but just the whole way these cultures are shaped. I'm trying, I'm coming back to the root of the question of like, yeah, so it's just conquering and dominance, uh, but it's with very strict rules as well. So it's going to come with religion and it's going to come with patriarchy because you need when we're taking away the connection to the land and the spirituality, and we're taking away the connection to each other, we have to fill that with something, and those things have to support these systems. So you can't practice this religion that has been cultural to you since the dawn of your people's time. No, now we all have to do this same religion, and that sameness is also a key part of it. It's it's like a virus taking over a healthy body, or like I think of it often as like an endangered species kind of overtaking an ecosystem. And I don't want to steer into like eco-fascism. Yeah, that metaphor just resonates for me a lot. It's like that we have a balanced ecosystem, all of these things are working in tune with each other, they're different, but they're sharing the soil, you know, and now we have this one plant completely conquering and spreading. And it is all eco-rooted. And then so the systems that we're struggling with now, like the preschool to prison pipeline, the disability rights and this kind of all of these things that are keeping the most vulnerable people down. Um, those are just now we have to replace that connection with rules. And we connect in this way. So boys connect this way, and girls are allowed to connect this way, and these neighbors connect this way. Like we're given all these rules that uphold the system and pulls us even farther away from ourselves. And so many people struggle to even uphold these systems. Like, that's why we have such a struggle with gender and such a struggle with men and women dating and all these things because we're not doing well in these systems. Everyone is depressed and hates their job. Like it's all by design, and it's all a root of I'm at the top of this of this pyramid, kind of, and I want to come overtake, I want more power, I want this. And you're not thinking about all the people underneath you because they're not people, they're just means to justify an end or means to an end. Uh, and so we have to see how we are participating in these systems, how they rely on our participation. And the first step of that is acknowledging how your life is impacted by these systems. And I think it's much more obvious for black people, other people of color, especially the darker the skin that you have. It's easier a little bit for women because you're you feel the harm. Um, I guess even then though, because we have there's colorism and stuff, people trying to cope in these systems by turning on each other and that divisiveness again. So it's it really is just like something that took root and is so insidious, and now our water is poison and our animals are dying.

Jess Callahan:

Like, yeah, yeah, every everything is dying, right? No, yeah, it does. It's like so in a in like the most basic like nutshell, it's like this system that starts with like rooted in wanting power control, more money, power control, dominance, whatever it is. And it's like as that's spreading, it's demanding obedience and conformity, and it thrives when we're disconnected from ourselves and each other, because when we're disconnected from ourselves and each other, then we're more like controllable, right? And then that's when all of these other systems can really come in and take firmer route, right?

Mars Amante:

Like, and then start selling this where the capital capitalism comes in. We'll start selling solutions. So you're burnt out and depressed, and what you need to do is spend time with your family and spend less time at work. But what we're gonna do is prescribe you an antidepressant, and that that's a whole like big pharma med thing because now you're on five different meds. When what you need to do is not have your life force stripped of you so that someone else can make money. And they're selling us TV subscriptions and entertainment and all these things where, and we're we're having this conversation on the internet, on computers with headphones, et cetera. Like we're inherently a part of it, but it's this thing that, oh, I need these things, I can't survive without them. And the farther we're developing, the farther away the cultural practices are. We are dependent. There's a whole generation of people that don't even know how to cook, let alone make herbal medicine or fend for themselves in an emergency. And they, that's also a pillar of colonialism, is like wipe out the pre-existing culture because we're bringing in this one. And that means languages are dead and medicine is gone, and libraries are burned to the ground, and people are decimated. And it's all just that one person can get richer, one person can have more perceived power. And they're the ones setting the definition of what power is as well. And so this is where it comes into what are your goals in life? And are they deeply rooted in capitalism and colonialism? Do you even want to be doing the work that you're doing right now? Are those goals yours, or are they just what you were told that you need to be successful to be successful and to thrive? And this is where it just all comes back, all of our decisions. And it is very tiring and it does take a lot of accountability to choose to see and then to choose to create a different world. But the more we connect and the more we remember, and the more we're touching base with each other and talking about, hey, this isn't okay. That didn't feel good to you either, did it? The more we're creating this timeline, we're like group manifesting. If you want to be spiritual with it, we're creating this timeline where those systems are not as stable as they were because we're questioning it at the foundation now, because none of us are okay. And it's getting to a point now with to mention like the ice raids and stuff, people are starting to see. But the fact that it's it's had to get this extreme and this in your face, that's more of the separation. Like if it's happening to your neighbor, it should bother you. And there's nothing stopping it from happening to you, too. But that's just more of the ego where if I don't understand it, if it doesn't resonate with me, if I haven't experienced that, I'm gonna focus on me. That has nothing to do with me. I might even gaslight it to make myself more comfortable. And then that comes back into capitalism where we're all so tired and burnt out that we only ever have the energy to just take care of what's right in front of us. And it all just, they're just cycles that feed each other. Um, and I will say, I remember this when you were asking on like the start of colonialism, just how predictable it is. You go into a place, you bring Bring first vices because you want to destroy those communities from within. And then whoever is left over from the vices like alcohol, introducing guns, introducing, if you want a modern example, Reagan in the 80s, introducing drugs into communities so that they can destroy themselves from the inside out, and then we'll use violence to take whatever stands after from that. And now, once the streets are too expensive for people that are from there to live on with gentrification, now that the land has been cleared of the animals and the people who it is their ancestral land, now we can come in, put up a cookie cutter house, make sure it's got Wi-Fi and cable. Like it's just, it's all right in front of you. And it's all been, it's the same cyclical thing happening on a more modern scale every time.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. That makes so much sense. And I think on top of that, when you talk about the disconnection of people and like it should happen, if it like it should matter to you if it's mattering to like if it's happening to your neighbor, there's a whole other, like just like biological layer to it. That's like once we start to live in these systems and we betray ourselves, we betray our truth, we disconnect from ourselves, there's like changes happening in our brain that actually like numb the parts of our brain that are responsible for empathy and compassion. And so, like when you see this stuff happening and you're like, I'm not, I'm not obviously speaking for you or I, but you know, there's so many people that aren't, don't seem to be affected. And it's like, I know because I there was a point in time, not when all of this craziness was happening, but there was a point in time where I had a burnout spiral and I was disconnected from myself. And I knew there were times I was like, I should be feeling more. This should bother me, this should really be impacted me, but my nervous system was so dysregulated that you literally can't until you first just like start to regulate yourself and start to feel the feelings that weave through these systems, been like disconnected from feeling. It's like, yeah, man, it's like it's it is crazy. So, okay, so then would you say like the process of decolonizing your mind is a process of really just like tuning into where these threads of conditioning live. Like, for example, maybe a starting point would be when you said when you said something about um what are your goals in life? Okay, like if my goal in life, I want to make a boatload of money and I want to climb the corporate ladder. Why? Because we're told that status and worth and value come in job title and how much you make, the kind of car you drive, right? And so are those actually your goals? Like for me, no. Uh at one point might I have said yes, maybe, but like is it's like starting tuning in at a point that like makes sense for you, and then like how would you describe it? I don't want to speak for you, but I'm kind of like that's how I'm seeing it from where we've been.

Mars Amante:

I think everyone needs the wake up point, the thing that radicalized you. And I I think the basis of all like humanness is this mind, body, soul connection, which is a lot of what I teach. And so you have to decolonize each each tier, your mind, body, and your soul. And you usually the work interweaves between all of them, but that awareness and being able to uncover the roots is a huge part of it. It has been for me at least. I do know if you are in a group that's been historically oppressed, if you're a part of those communities, you might already be radicalized because your own treatment is really harsh. And through my perspective as a neurodivergent, disabled person, a psychic, I'm biracial. I grew up in a very segregated tiny town. Like, like I said, I was aware of it very young. But what did give me the power to move on that awareness was education. And it was having definitions for the things I was feeling and seeing, oh, I'm not crazy. There's literally, you can research it. The the preschool to prison pipeline, which is very close to my heart. I mentioned that, or seeing like the rent prices and being able to tie it into your own life so that you can see because the ego is a hell of a beast. And it sometimes it does need to equate things back to itself to understand it most of the time. And I think that comes later on uh as you develop more empathy. You can you don't need to see it through your own lens to see it. But that that education and and doing the research and reading the outside perspective so that you can develop that awareness and develop that empathy is a really key factor because now you know how to start recalibrating within yourself, but you do have to have the awareness of the systems around you that you're participating in with or without your own consent, you know, so that you can have the words for it, so that you can start thinking what would it feel like differently. And the question you said of what values do I have? Where do they come from is a really good one. And as well, I would say, which is the thread that we we talked about, what in your life is a problem right now? Where does that problem come from? What is that problem upholding? And what I've learned recently, um, actually from Jim Carrey, who's an amazing spiritual teacher at this point, um, he said, every choice you make is either rooted in love or rooted in fear. And that it resonated so deeply, it put words to, and that was the switch I think that a lot of people could use in your day-to-day life. Are your decisions coming from a place of love or are they coming from a place of fear? Because colonialism and capitalism thrives on fear. And so if you say, wow, every decision I've been making lately has been from a place of fear, that's a sign that your external world and your internal world too, likely needs some recalibrating and adjustment. We are supposed to be vibrating at the frequency of love, like at all times. That's just what our connection is. And I think that's why plugging more into your intuition, plugging more into your relationship with self and decolonizing your body, letting yourself rest, learning what your limits are, listening to your soul, all of that is a love language. That's you being responsible for yourself. And that responsibility and that accountability is a way to show love. And so now what decisions would I be making if they were from love right now? Like, but I I love um I love this way of thinking of just these questions, but they will, it blows a lot open for you, you know, when you start to realize, oh shit, everything around me, you know, and that's where I think a lot of people stop and we go into the spiritual bypassing or the performative allyship because it's I I don't know where to go from here. And all of my identity is rooted in the comfort that comes from these things that I'm and the awareness is uncomfortable, but accountability is love. And if you want to love your neighbor, you have to hold yourself accountable for the ways that you're stepping on their throat, advertently or inadvertently. And it's so easy to say, oh, I'm not a Nazi, or oh, those people are extremists, but like it all matters, it all matters, especially back to bring it back to a personal responsibility to yeah, decolonize yourself and make yourself aware. I think awareness is the first step. But then the second step is embodiment and accountability. And that's a constant, you're not gonna reprogram yourself and then immediately be, oh, I'm better, I'm anti-racist now. You're still in a society that tells you, all this is normal, all this isn't. It's a constant every single day I hear a commercial and I have to pay attention to the way they're manipulating me. And I'm watching this TV show and I'm looking out for all the even subliminal, the background character that got physically harmed was a black person. Like it's on a very, very detailed subliminal level, and is a commitment to it's a commitment to an awareness, and the awareness makes you uncomfortable. But I will say the discomfort you're feeling is nothing like the people suffering through an apocalypse of their people or in a current genocide, like accountability and the personal responsibility, which is, I think, funny enough, weaponized in the US, this personal responsibility where now we're all individuals and we're not allowed to ask for help. I just mean the responsibility you have to yourself to show up and what your values are. And if your values are rooted in fear, that's a you probably, you know, that's something to think about. Yeah.

Jess Callahan:

Sincerely. Yeah, I think you do. You have to start with knowing your values. People don't, I don't think a lot of people know what their values are. Like, so like it is like start there. And I think what you named about love and fear, that's something that I've been using as a real like anchor point for myself over these past few months at least, as I've really like, like I would say not just few months, like last decades, definitely, but especially like as things have just escalated more and more and more at this point where it's just becoming this like bigger inflection point. Like, what's what are my guides? Like, if I'm going to post on social media and use my voice to amplify a message and encourage people around me to maybe feel empowered to do the same, you know, I check what like what am I sharing? Is it rooted in love? Like it's you can, you know, because you have those like moments afterwards when you speak up or do something or make a choice that it feels uncertain. If you feel like what I was talking about with my daughter at the beginning, like if it's not, if you do something and it's not aligned with your values or this like living in this like frequency of love, and it feels uncertain, you can quickly pinpoint why. You know, it really does become this like really strong guidepost. It doesn't have to be about politics, left or right, supporting and yeah, it's literally like, are you choosing to live with love? Start there. Like, that's if you just start, if you just start literally following that guidepost, I think like the talk about discomfort coming up, like it makes it maybe a little bit easier to spot where fear is blocking you from stepping into discomfort. That is a big, a big problem, I think, is our our body, our nervous system is actually trained to keep us comfortable, right? And so to to what step into discomfort, you have to override that. You have to have some sort of anchor point to like talk yourself into it because otherwise it's too easy to just like bypass it, I think.

Mars Amante:

100%, especially now in this culture where surviving is everybody's goal. We're past the point of even shooting for thriving, like most people. So you're like, I I just went and worked a 12-hour shift and I came home and I had kids and I couldn't afford grit. Like, how do you have the space to think about how you're contributing to the issues that you're suffering from? It is a lot, and and that's where it's like, okay, so start where you can. And to me, I think what we mentioned, like the mind being a good starting point, just have the education and start with awareness. And then at a certain point, for me at least, that awareness actually, honestly, I've run into this with a lot of people. For me, when I have that awareness, I'm collapsing all other realities. I once I know this thing is wrong, I have to, it becomes a new value. But for some people, there is a gap between the realization and the changes of actions. And so focusing on what you can do to close that gap. Um, and it is it is really tricky when people are so burnt out and can't, you know, and that's where we need more community gatherings, more spaces like these, conversations like this, where yeah, we're busy and we're working. But this hour conversation on Zoom that now gets shared to more people, you know, it it branches out. So I think it's easy to get overwhelmed by how much needs to be done. But then to come back to the small personal responsibilities, like what is one choice? What is one thing you can do today that is a little bit different than what you did yesterday and in a step of a direction that you actually want to go? A lot of people are just on autopilot. And so for a lot of people, and this is what I do with a lot of my work, is getting back in touch with your body so that you can set better boundaries at work and know what it means when you're actually tired. So you can stop getting to the like kind of get on top of the cycle of burnout and knowing yourself is a radical act and loving yourself is a radical act. And so I say this as like maybe it's a small step, but really it's it's a big thing to say, you know, it's I get off in 10 minutes and my boss just put a big thing on my desk, and it's I'm going to say, I'll get that out, you know, whenever, and starting to start respecting yourself more and honoring yourself more, your body, it gets easier to listen to it. And I I truly believe like once you're operating with rest as a default, which is anti-capitalist, and once you're listening to your body, letting back guide you through it, it kind of makes it like inevitable. Like I have to take care of this creature. This creature is how I'm alive. So I guess now we're coming into the embodiment, which is gonna be the body, because we we've learned about these systems, we have this awareness where it's even making it worse because we don't know how to get out of it. So now I'm gonna turn inward and I'm gonna ask my body, how can I be 10% more comfortable right now? And I I move my arm a little bit, and that was all I did that day. But now my body knows, you'll listen when I tell you, you know, and now I'm switching positions before the position is painful. I'm starting to hear, as soon as my body gets uncomfortable with something, I'm starting to know what my yes feels like and what my no feels like. And now we're and we're kind of seeing this with the younger generation, people just not coming to work and like people's bodies are tired. You can all, if we're gonna die anyway, I'm not gonna die in the Swendies. Like, okay. Yeah, and honoring your body is is a beautiful way to uh reshape and realign your life because you get fed up with it, you don't want to take it anymore.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah, you're gonna naming the young people, I think it's like such an interesting point because I think there's this whole talk track of like younger generations being lazy and and like they're carrying not only all of our bullets. Yes, the weight of it all. All of it, like the behavioral conditioning, the epigenetic imprint, like all of it, they carry. And so it's like enough is enough. And like, what do we have to do to just like break the system? Okay, they don't want to work, so like they're gonna figure out a different way. That's I mean, some want to work, but you know what I mean?

Mars Amante:

Like, yeah, they're just they carry the burden of knowing, they're more informed than any generation before that. To call them lazy is that's just the programming right there. They want us arguing within generations, within any type of group that connects you. Children have always been like a pivotal. I I say uh children, animals, and elders, or children, elders, and animals, pillars of society need to be together, need to be honored. They are they tell them to go, they see the fascism around them and they have to go work like part-time while they're in the math ain't math in man. Like I'm very waking up and I feel like the responsibility and the burden is heavier than ever. So I would not I'd not call them lazy for sure.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah, no, for and I think like they're almost like depending on the exact like okay, like yeah, right, right. Well, and it is like you hear, you know, I'll I'll listen to just, you know, I have like the the news, independent news sources that I get my stuff from, and I try to again get all different voices. And as I do, you know, I hear the the the boomers and they're like talking about the young people being lazy, and it's just you know, it is, I think it's very much generational because I think that there are there is a generation of people who are still very much following the programming, and then you have, you know, a generation of say like millennials that are like cycle breakers. A lot of them are, you know, just like doing the work, yeah, of bridging like how are we telling the boomers like this isn't, we're not doing this anymore, but also like leading the way for these younger generations and doing the work of like deconstructing our own conditioning and burnout, you know, and so and so of course, like there's gonna be a generation below that like chronology that's gonna just be like not doing it. Like that, like I'm just like, I'm not here for any of this. Like, this is messed up.

Mars Amante:

It's such uh it's such ego projection, too, because the same person that would call the younger generation lazy is likely not doing very much themselves or saying things like, I'm stuck in my ways, this is just how it is. So they're they're probably feeling the weight of everything, seeing these young people try complaining about it and doing something about it because bringing awareness by saying, I'm not okay with this is literally how you interrupt, you disrupt. So you see that and you have to put them down because it makes you feel like you're doing less, or why didn't you do that before? What have you been waiting for? What are you waiting for now? So we're just gonna keep them small by acting like they're not doing anything. And there's also this um mentality of how hard the older folks have to struggle, so to see kids just not showing up to work. I'm sure that does feel lazy, but that's just because you you forced yourself to do this thing, and I'm not gonna force myself, but you're gonna resent me instead of maybe being freed. But it's a lot to realize, oh, I spent my work doing this, saving up, I got married, I have my kids, and I'm and now I have to look into not following that. And maybe I was uncomfortable the whole time I was pursuing that. So why do you get this freedom? It's very, it's a weird cope. Well, okay, I don't even want to shame because I get it. Ego is, like I said, a hell of a beast.

Jess Callahan:

It's gonna make you think everything else is the problem, but right, yeah, and not to not to shame at all, because I do think that it's I think that there's people of all different generations that are handling all of this like very differently. I think it sort of speaks to like trends, right? Like where it does activate discomfort, you know, for certain people who are live who aren't, you know, maybe used to change, like when younger people start to maybe do something a little bit differently, it's like, wait a minute, like I don't understand what they're doing. And it means that something's shifting and I'm not ready to like be uncomfortable and try to understand that. But also, maybe for the younger people who are like, I'm I'm not just I'm not gonna work, like maybe that's a harder choice for them, right? Like maybe now it means that yeah, they have to decide how am I going to pay my bills because I do so, or you know, that it's it takes more creative thinking and problem solving. And yeah, if we could all just if we could all just take some time to like stand in the shoes of someone else and experience life through someone, or just like validate that like their truth is a truth and it's fine. It doesn't mean that it has to threaten my own. I don't know.

Mars Amante:

It's just yeah, that that scarcity and those decisions and thinking that are rooted in fear, which is what colonialism inherently thrives on, like as a foundation. I feel like scarcity is so overreaching, but it's exactly what you're saying. Like you don't have the space, you don't feel like you have the time, you don't feel like you have the under, you know, and it all just feeds each other, feeds into itself like a cycle. Um yeah, definitely proud of these younger kids, because I'm younger than me, I guess, but it there's just so they're at a time now where they're just so there's so much awareness, and with that comes so much grief and apathy, and it's it's getting really like it's really rocky. And so I don't even know. I just mean shout out, shout out to like the Gensiers and the Zoomers, I guess. I don't even know the names of the generator. I how little I care about.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah, but they're people and they have a they do things differently and it's fine or the same, but um the lack of accountability too.

Mars Amante:

You left the society to these poor children, like you had the chance to vote differently and you didn't.

Jess Callahan:

Uh-huh. I know, I know, and I say that like now too. I'm like, if people don't start just like even just like like speaking up, doing something different, then we're doing the same thing. Like we are literally just like passing it, we're just continuing to like pass the problem down. And now, like, I mean, I do have a lot of hope for like my daughter's generation, for example.

Mars Amante:

Like, I think that they really can change the world, but um, I'd I'd like to see it change a little before then, but you know, um and I will say shout out to the activism and the activists that got us where we are, because we are right now two women on a conference call talking about like we are very far from the start, but you know, honoring the duality and the complexity of that for sure. Yeah, I think that's a really and oppressed than ever at the same time.

Jess Callahan:

Yeah, it's a good thing to name it, is because we I think things feel really heavy right now, but it is really, really important to remember like all that came before it to get us here. Yeah, there were people that voted certain ways or did whatever to get, but there were also people that fought really hard in the decades and and centuries even before that, that like that got us even to just like this point where we're still like fighting for balance.

Mars Amante:

Yeah, um you said about all generations having different types of people because imagine being like a boomer age person, but you were like fighting in the streets and helping your friends who had AIDS, and like they're I do not want to erase the activism. So even just the titles for the generation gap is separating us.

Jess Callahan:

So yeah, I I agree with you completely. Okay, so then with that, I have one more question for you. And I think we're we're at a moment in US history where there is an inflection point, it is a continuation of a problem that has been just like plaguing us for a very, very, very long time. It's just it's we're seeing it a little bit differently. We're seeing more voices sort of join. Um, but like in your view, like where where do we where do we go from here? Where where does this go?

Mars Amante:

We go outside the land. Like we have to return to the land. I'm about to start crying. Um I I said the other day, like I think the worst thing colonialism did, and maybe the root of all the evil that spread from there was putting man above the land. Because when you don't respect the land that you come from, why would you respect a person or an animal? And there are so many people that not just like they don't spend time outside, maybe they enjoy it, but they're inside, glued to a screen, whatever it is. And I'm I'm saying this on a screen right now, I'm not even exempt from this. But the amount of people that are afraid of going outside and the even I was gonna say not to sound like conspiracy theorists again, but Genuinely like the anti-nature propaganda that's in movies, and it's usually like a joke or something. But it's like, no, you have a whole generation of people that are like afraid of any type of flying insect. They're afraid of going into the wood. They don't want to even touch grass because it's dirty, like that, this sanitized, very clinical way of being human where everything is clean and flawless and perfect and everything is indoors and everything is concrete and marble. Please go put your bare feet in some soil and let whatever comes up for you come up. And if you feel called to talk to a tree, talk to a tree, you know, obviously treat your nature beings like actual beings, don't be rude. That's a whole nother conversation. But that's even part of my work. I'm working on a workshop right now to introduce kids to nature because we're not even teaching them how to interact with nature. And when there's so much fear, that's when you get to there's a snake in your yard and you shoot it instead of relocating it. And that's where we, you know, these very um just out of touch, disconnected and quick. Urgency is another key key factor of capitalism, especially, but also this colonialism when you're in survival mode, everything is urgent. Um, but but yeah, slowing down and connecting with nature and reprogramming that urgency and realizing you are an animal, the same as the cat next to you. We're all in these creatures. That's that's your body, that's how you're experiencing this life. We are not designed to be inside most of the time. We're not designed to be out of sync with the moon, out of sync with the circadian rhythm with the sun, out of sync with the seasons. We now you are air conditioned 24-7 and you're in heat, like we're just so disconnected from the earth. And I really feel like if you want to do a level of activism right now and you don't have any money and you don't have any to like go put your bare feet in the earth for five minutes. And you know, these cities with no green spaces, also part of the problem. And I don't think that's a coincidence. Get a potted plant in your house, take a bath or a shower. Like we have candles, we have to be connected with the elements, and we have just, I don't think people realize the detriment to our health that it has. And I will also say sometimes your aversion to it is a sign that you need it even more. Like when I was a deeply anxious person, I hated the smell of lavender. I hated it. And now, as somebody who I feel regulated, I don't struggle with anxiety as badly, I go to Lavender Field to hang out. Like I think we are often like averse to the medicine that we need. If it feels really gross to go outside, you are the one that needs to go outside the most. Please go outside. It can be a manicured park if that makes you feel more comfortable, but genuinely, like our connection to the earth from a vibrational standpoint, however you want to look at it, like we have an innate divine connection to the earth, and honoring that is a great way to ripple effect and start that process back to yourself, the process back to connection, the process back to the land. We are here to be stewards of the land and the animals. And it's something that indigenous cultures were thriving and knew about, and colonialism came and created that separation, and and now that separation just shatters out. So now we're separate men from women and we're separate gender, you know, all oh, that's the same thing twice, whatever. But but there we're separate from the generations and separate from what our jobs are, you know, it's just all rippled out because we forgot that we are just animals, like yeah, born born under a tree, meant to be outside, meant to be a part of these systems.

Jess Callahan:

Uh that's like one of my favorite things to talk about. And I feel like we need to well, we'll have to have another conversation at some point just about like reconnecting with nature cycles and the elements and and all of that because I do think that's really important. So if somebody wants to find you, work with you, find you, get more of this amazing just like energy and insight. Um, what's the best way to do that?

Mars Amante:

I I am on Instagram. Um, I'm also on TikTok. I try to be in all of the places so that it's more open. Um I am on threads, I threads and Instagram probably the most, and that's Intuitive Mars, same handle for everything. You can also check me out at my website, magicalmars.com, if you want to book with me, hop on a call, anything. Uh yeah, I am going to be rolling out that workshop soon to introduce your littles to nature and kind of start that relationship from the ground up. I recently had, I've actually had two really impactful instances regarding animals and children. And that's when I realized like we need the connection has to start earlier on. And so I am going to be introducing some workshops there. So keep your eyes peeled.

Jess Callahan:

I love that. I'm like signing up now. That's yeah, amazing. And I'll include links in the show notes. But um, I I can't wait to talk again. I mean, I'm just I'm so grateful to have had you here and to have that just had the opportunity to have this conversation. It's like healing for me, I think. And so, and I'm just excited to be able to share with other people too. So thank you.

Mars Amante:

Yeah, I love that. I appreciate you for holding this space for me. Definitely open to more conversations in the future. And I will iterate again um, educate yourself, read, read books and not American history books. Try and read about the American situation from out other countries' perspectives, other cultures' perspective. Uh, read memoirs from people of color, especially, and if you're that can be overwhelming, start in your area. If you are in Charleston, South Carolina, check out the Gulageechee people and the way that they were treated and things like that. Learn about where you are and in time right now. And I think breaking it down to that smaller bit, learn about maybe some of the racist laws in your state that have been around for forever and nobody's checking out. Like start on a small local to you scale and then branch out from there. But that exposure to the history and knowing the dates and the faces and that this has been going on since the conception of the country is really key. And I think just since I focus more on the spiritual body, I just want to disclaim one more time like educate, educate, educate. Yeah, it's a really, really what laws are impacting you and know what systems have been in place from before you were born to right now.

Jess Callahan:

So yeah, love it. Thank you.